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	<title>Comments on: Marriage: Marginalized or Relevant?</title>
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	<description>Back Room Disputations Resulting in Truthful Gestations</description>
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		<title>By: masolas</title>
		<link>http://backwomb.com/2007/11/22/marriage-marginalized-or-relevant/comment-page-1/#comment-275</link>
		<dc:creator>masolas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Dec 2007 12:55:33 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Either type of marriage, arranged or not, can be good and lasting for both parties as long as each has the correct approach. If either sees the other as their &#039;property&#039; then it takes a negative path and becomes destructive either resulting in divorce or becoming a virtual jail for one or both parties. So, this true and honest love to which the knight (Gonzo) refers is often confused with simply being attached to some separate being because you like certain, or many, things about them. When an attached person looks at the other, they think &#039;I want/need her/him&#039; and they do whatever it takes to keep her/him. The risk of losing these &#039;things&#039; causes the bad things (jealosy, mistrust, manipulation, etc.) to creep into the relationship resulting in failure, or at the very least two miserable people. Love on the other hand is very different from this attachment, I think. You do not look at the person as a seperate person that has all of this good &#039;stuff&#039;. It is more of a state of mind of us. You do not consider them to be a separate person that brings certain things to the relationship. You do not repetitively re-evaluate if what they are &#039;bringing&#039; is sufficent or god-forbid more than you. You don&#039;t need to equate your &#039;stuff&#039;. For love, you recognize and accept interdependence, you enjoy her qualities, you simply want the other to be happy. In offering this type of love, there is more of the &#039;good&#039; things (affection, trust, etc.) and brings both closer. Attachment stems from a feeling of being separate while love stems from the feeling of being together.
I believe many marriages fail because both or even one person takes the &#039;attachment&#039; approach to the marriage. So it is not necessarily if the marriage is arranged or not, it is the approach each person takes after the marriage is official. I am not very familiar with all of the customs of arranged marriage, but I imagine that part of the reason that it is successful is that the society instills certain qualities in the youth that lead to the &#039;correct approach&#039; (or there are a lot of very unhappy women).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Either type of marriage, arranged or not, can be good and lasting for both parties as long as each has the correct approach. If either sees the other as their &#8216;property&#8217; then it takes a negative path and becomes destructive either resulting in divorce or becoming a virtual jail for one or both parties. So, this true and honest love to which the knight (Gonzo) refers is often confused with simply being attached to some separate being because you like certain, or many, things about them. When an attached person looks at the other, they think &#8216;I want/need her/him&#8217; and they do whatever it takes to keep her/him. The risk of losing these &#8216;things&#8217; causes the bad things (jealosy, mistrust, manipulation, etc.) to creep into the relationship resulting in failure, or at the very least two miserable people. Love on the other hand is very different from this attachment, I think. You do not look at the person as a seperate person that has all of this good &#8217;stuff&#8217;. It is more of a state of mind of us. You do not consider them to be a separate person that brings certain things to the relationship. You do not repetitively re-evaluate if what they are &#8216;bringing&#8217; is sufficent or god-forbid more than you. You don&#8217;t need to equate your &#8217;stuff&#8217;. For love, you recognize and accept interdependence, you enjoy her qualities, you simply want the other to be happy. In offering this type of love, there is more of the &#8216;good&#8217; things (affection, trust, etc.) and brings both closer. Attachment stems from a feeling of being separate while love stems from the feeling of being together.<br />
I believe many marriages fail because both or even one person takes the &#8216;attachment&#8217; approach to the marriage. So it is not necessarily if the marriage is arranged or not, it is the approach each person takes after the marriage is official. I am not very familiar with all of the customs of arranged marriage, but I imagine that part of the reason that it is successful is that the society instills certain qualities in the youth that lead to the &#8216;correct approach&#8217; (or there are a lot of very unhappy women).</p>
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		<title>By: Dagsy</title>
		<link>http://backwomb.com/2007/11/22/marriage-marginalized-or-relevant/comment-page-1/#comment-269</link>
		<dc:creator>Dagsy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Nov 2007 20:00:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://backwomb.com/2007/11/22/marriage-marginalized-or-relevant/#comment-269</guid>
		<description>So there&#039;s hope for you yet huh 5cents? :)

I, as a Westerner, really dont see the HUGE issue with arranged marriages... unless ofcourse you didnt pick him.. but think about it.. if you&#039;re a nasty looking woman, at least you&#039;ll get a man.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So there&#8217;s hope for you yet huh 5cents? <img src='http://backwomb.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>I, as a Westerner, really dont see the HUGE issue with arranged marriages&#8230; unless ofcourse you didnt pick him.. but think about it.. if you&#8217;re a nasty looking woman, at least you&#8217;ll get a man.</p>
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		<title>By: 5cents</title>
		<link>http://backwomb.com/2007/11/22/marriage-marginalized-or-relevant/comment-page-1/#comment-268</link>
		<dc:creator>5cents</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Nov 2007 18:54:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://backwomb.com/2007/11/22/marriage-marginalized-or-relevant/#comment-268</guid>
		<description>&quot;Arranged marriage is not good for ANYBODY,&quot; is at best a poor generalization and misleading. The implication is that nearly 2 billion people on the planet engage in a practice that is &quot;bad for them.&quot;

I simply don&#039;t think that is possible. It may not be ideal for everyone, but certainly, in some situations, arranged marriage is the best alternative.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Arranged marriage is not good for ANYBODY,&#8221; is at best a poor generalization and misleading. The implication is that nearly 2 billion people on the planet engage in a practice that is &#8220;bad for them.&#8221;</p>
<p>I simply don&#8217;t think that is possible. It may not be ideal for everyone, but certainly, in some situations, arranged marriage is the best alternative.</p>
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		<title>By: Dagsy</title>
		<link>http://backwomb.com/2007/11/22/marriage-marginalized-or-relevant/comment-page-1/#comment-267</link>
		<dc:creator>Dagsy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Nov 2007 18:09:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://backwomb.com/2007/11/22/marriage-marginalized-or-relevant/#comment-267</guid>
		<description>Sir Reverend Gonzo,

I hear you. My mum is Asian - half Dutch, half Indonesian - and in her family too, one wasnt supposed to even think about boys until one was finished with university. She however, hasnt approached me about marriage yet. My dad did however ask me to walk in front of the royal palace a few times in the hope that maybe a rich guy would snag me and relieve him of his financial duties :)

I realise an arranged marriage doesnt mean one loves another. However i have heard many of my friends say &quot;i&#039;ll learn to love him&quot; While this isnt for me, it SEEMS to have worked for them. In arranged marriage &quot;proposals&quot; a man can easily walk up to the girl&#039;s parents and indicate an interest. In Western culture, or at least in my world, that guy would be shot on the spot initially... 

nice to hear from an insider male though :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sir Reverend Gonzo,</p>
<p>I hear you. My mum is Asian &#8211; half Dutch, half Indonesian &#8211; and in her family too, one wasnt supposed to even think about boys until one was finished with university. She however, hasnt approached me about marriage yet. My dad did however ask me to walk in front of the royal palace a few times in the hope that maybe a rich guy would snag me and relieve him of his financial duties <img src='http://backwomb.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>I realise an arranged marriage doesnt mean one loves another. However i have heard many of my friends say &#8220;i&#8217;ll learn to love him&#8221; While this isnt for me, it SEEMS to have worked for them. In arranged marriage &#8220;proposals&#8221; a man can easily walk up to the girl&#8217;s parents and indicate an interest. In Western culture, or at least in my world, that guy would be shot on the spot initially&#8230; </p>
<p>nice to hear from an insider male though <img src='http://backwomb.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Sir Reverend Gonzo</title>
		<link>http://backwomb.com/2007/11/22/marriage-marginalized-or-relevant/comment-page-1/#comment-253</link>
		<dc:creator>Sir Reverend Gonzo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Nov 2007 19:38:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://backwomb.com/2007/11/22/marriage-marginalized-or-relevant/#comment-253</guid>
		<description>Dagsy,

As for me, my nature is to be against everything, and if someone tries to force their will upon me, I&#039;ll do the opposite, simply out of principle.

That said, while I never had an arranged marriage. My parents, or rather, my mom, came to me after I graduated and asked &quot;So when are you getting married?&quot; This was immediately after not supposing to date while in high school and college because education is more important. Needlessly to say, I nearly walked out of that restaurant.

She knows better now. Don&#039;t question me until I&#039;m thirty.

As for choice, if you marry someone, it should be for the right reasons, and the reasons are right, there shouldn&#039;t be any questions of &quot;Did I marry the right person?&quot;

A friend of mine&#039;s dad once told him, &quot;Don&#039;t marry a woman you can live with, marry one you can&#039;t live without.&quot; I hold that to be true, not just for men, but also for women. If you marry someone who you truly and honestly love, and who loves you, and both understand their own minds, and comfortable in their own skins, there wouldn&#039;t be a problem.

Arranged marriage is not good for ANYBODY.

The reason people didn&#039;t get divorced in the old days wasn&#039;t because they loved each other. It was because it was a cultural taboo to get divorced.

Just because a couple is married doesn&#039;t mean they love each other.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dagsy,</p>
<p>As for me, my nature is to be against everything, and if someone tries to force their will upon me, I&#8217;ll do the opposite, simply out of principle.</p>
<p>That said, while I never had an arranged marriage. My parents, or rather, my mom, came to me after I graduated and asked &#8220;So when are you getting married?&#8221; This was immediately after not supposing to date while in high school and college because education is more important. Needlessly to say, I nearly walked out of that restaurant.</p>
<p>She knows better now. Don&#8217;t question me until I&#8217;m thirty.</p>
<p>As for choice, if you marry someone, it should be for the right reasons, and the reasons are right, there shouldn&#8217;t be any questions of &#8220;Did I marry the right person?&#8221;</p>
<p>A friend of mine&#8217;s dad once told him, &#8220;Don&#8217;t marry a woman you can live with, marry one you can&#8217;t live without.&#8221; I hold that to be true, not just for men, but also for women. If you marry someone who you truly and honestly love, and who loves you, and both understand their own minds, and comfortable in their own skins, there wouldn&#8217;t be a problem.</p>
<p>Arranged marriage is not good for ANYBODY.</p>
<p>The reason people didn&#8217;t get divorced in the old days wasn&#8217;t because they loved each other. It was because it was a cultural taboo to get divorced.</p>
<p>Just because a couple is married doesn&#8217;t mean they love each other.</p>
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		<title>By: Dagsy</title>
		<link>http://backwomb.com/2007/11/22/marriage-marginalized-or-relevant/comment-page-1/#comment-252</link>
		<dc:creator>Dagsy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Nov 2007 18:51:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://backwomb.com/2007/11/22/marriage-marginalized-or-relevant/#comment-252</guid>
		<description>Oh another added note. It&#039;s becoming a trend in Europe NOT to get married. Just have the civil union and the benefits of that, but no &quot;husband and wife&quot; deal, no marriage - nothing. These people will have kids together without the marriage. Women who DO choose to get married also refuse to change their last names. I guess in the olden days women needed to be married to be &quot;somebody&quot;, that doesn&#039;t hold true anymore. Or does it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh another added note. It&#8217;s becoming a trend in Europe NOT to get married. Just have the civil union and the benefits of that, but no &#8220;husband and wife&#8221; deal, no marriage &#8211; nothing. These people will have kids together without the marriage. Women who DO choose to get married also refuse to change their last names. I guess in the olden days women needed to be married to be &#8220;somebody&#8221;, that doesn&#8217;t hold true anymore. Or does it?</p>
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		<title>By: Dagsy</title>
		<link>http://backwomb.com/2007/11/22/marriage-marginalized-or-relevant/comment-page-1/#comment-251</link>
		<dc:creator>Dagsy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Nov 2007 18:47:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://backwomb.com/2007/11/22/marriage-marginalized-or-relevant/#comment-251</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m wondering about this with respect to you .. uhh Indian folks.. I&#039;ve got quite a few Indian friends who got married by 19.. ALL arranged. They were all raised internationally as well, so i would have assumed that pressure wouldn&#039;t be there.  What i want to know is, does it still hold true for you folks that if you&#039;re not married by lets say 23 something MUST be wrong with you?? 

I agree with Masolas - its the choice matter. Maybe that&#039;s why arranged marriages are such a good idea (i know in a way i wouldnt mind taking my pick of a few eligible men). Too much choice and options leaves you with wondering if another choice would have been better. 

I figure we need to wait till at least 30. That way we got all the &quot;testing&quot; out of the way and we can be happier with the choice we make. Getting married at 18 is just crazy. What do you really know at 18?.. then again.. my grandparents were married at 17 and 18.. after only meeting a month earlier - World War One probably hasted that idea. They were married for over 50 years though...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m wondering about this with respect to you .. uhh Indian folks.. I&#8217;ve got quite a few Indian friends who got married by 19.. ALL arranged. They were all raised internationally as well, so i would have assumed that pressure wouldn&#8217;t be there.  What i want to know is, does it still hold true for you folks that if you&#8217;re not married by lets say 23 something MUST be wrong with you?? </p>
<p>I agree with Masolas &#8211; its the choice matter. Maybe that&#8217;s why arranged marriages are such a good idea (i know in a way i wouldnt mind taking my pick of a few eligible men). Too much choice and options leaves you with wondering if another choice would have been better. </p>
<p>I figure we need to wait till at least 30. That way we got all the &#8220;testing&#8221; out of the way and we can be happier with the choice we make. Getting married at 18 is just crazy. What do you really know at 18?.. then again.. my grandparents were married at 17 and 18.. after only meeting a month earlier &#8211; World War One probably hasted that idea. They were married for over 50 years though&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Sir Reverend Gonzo</title>
		<link>http://backwomb.com/2007/11/22/marriage-marginalized-or-relevant/comment-page-1/#comment-250</link>
		<dc:creator>Sir Reverend Gonzo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Nov 2007 05:44:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://backwomb.com/2007/11/22/marriage-marginalized-or-relevant/#comment-250</guid>
		<description>Class struggle? No.

Repression? Yes.

I&#039;m not saying it&#039;s wrong. It&#039;s human nature.

But what it came from, and it relates to what a lot of people are saying about marriage now.

What is marriage? Is it sacred, spiritual? Are we destroying the sanctity of marriage by our modern heathen ways?

No, marriage was always about class and about power. Kings and queens married for political alliances, not because they were so in love. The same went on in Indian cultures.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Class struggle? No.</p>
<p>Repression? Yes.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not saying it&#8217;s wrong. It&#8217;s human nature.</p>
<p>But what it came from, and it relates to what a lot of people are saying about marriage now.</p>
<p>What is marriage? Is it sacred, spiritual? Are we destroying the sanctity of marriage by our modern heathen ways?</p>
<p>No, marriage was always about class and about power. Kings and queens married for political alliances, not because they were so in love. The same went on in Indian cultures.</p>
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		<title>By: 5cents</title>
		<link>http://backwomb.com/2007/11/22/marriage-marginalized-or-relevant/comment-page-1/#comment-249</link>
		<dc:creator>5cents</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Nov 2007 03:28:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://backwomb.com/2007/11/22/marriage-marginalized-or-relevant/#comment-249</guid>
		<description>Hmmm, this implies you agree with Marx &amp; Engels,



&lt;blockquote&gt;&quot;The history of all hitherto existing society is the history of class struggle.&quot;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;


Getting off topic though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmmm, this implies you agree with Marx &amp; Engels,</p>
<blockquote><p>&#8220;The history of all hitherto existing society is the history of class struggle.&#8221;
</p></blockquote>
<p>Getting off topic though.</p>
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		<title>By: Sir Reverend Gonzo</title>
		<link>http://backwomb.com/2007/11/22/marriage-marginalized-or-relevant/comment-page-1/#comment-248</link>
		<dc:creator>Sir Reverend Gonzo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Nov 2007 03:03:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://backwomb.com/2007/11/22/marriage-marginalized-or-relevant/#comment-248</guid>
		<description>Social laws (traditions, religions, etc) are not there to prevent social decay, but rather to help the ruling classes retain power. The only two I believe to be the exceptions would be Buddhism and Taoism, but of which refer to internal rules and struggles rather than external ones.

Now, whether or not the other religions were originally designed with good intentions is a whole different story.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Social laws (traditions, religions, etc) are not there to prevent social decay, but rather to help the ruling classes retain power. The only two I believe to be the exceptions would be Buddhism and Taoism, but of which refer to internal rules and struggles rather than external ones.</p>
<p>Now, whether or not the other religions were originally designed with good intentions is a whole different story.</p>
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